tortoise
Aug 23, 03:04 PM
Do you have a reference showing that this translates to better performance in real-world application tests in a head to head competition?
Not handy, since a lot of this happened on mailing lists.
The short version is that the memory performance scales in a very sub-linear fashion as a function of the number of cores being used, whereas Opteron scalability is almost linear up to a large number of cores. The good news is that for single dual-core processors the memory performance is on par with dual-core Opterons and their in-cache performance can be better. The bad news is that this performance does not hold as you scale cores in a system. So for some applications (e.g. those that live mostly in cache) the Woodcrest processors will be mildly faster than Opterons, but for most the performance is about even in real app benchmarks.
I've seen fairly comprehensive benchmarks for both databases and scientific computing applications, both of which thoroughly exercise the memory subsystem. Even though a single Intel core theoretically has more bandwidth, the high latency means that the real bandwidth is about the same as the slower Opterons (which have real bandwidth that approaches theoretical) and the cross-sectional bandwidth of Opterons when you get up to 4 cores and higher is much higher since the scaling is almost linear with the number of cores. For Intel, I think it was the case that a bigger cache was a cheaper design choice than a truly scalable memory subsystem. As a result, they will have different competencies. Some types of floating point codes should run very well on Intel.
Not handy, since a lot of this happened on mailing lists.
The short version is that the memory performance scales in a very sub-linear fashion as a function of the number of cores being used, whereas Opteron scalability is almost linear up to a large number of cores. The good news is that for single dual-core processors the memory performance is on par with dual-core Opterons and their in-cache performance can be better. The bad news is that this performance does not hold as you scale cores in a system. So for some applications (e.g. those that live mostly in cache) the Woodcrest processors will be mildly faster than Opterons, but for most the performance is about even in real app benchmarks.
I've seen fairly comprehensive benchmarks for both databases and scientific computing applications, both of which thoroughly exercise the memory subsystem. Even though a single Intel core theoretically has more bandwidth, the high latency means that the real bandwidth is about the same as the slower Opterons (which have real bandwidth that approaches theoretical) and the cross-sectional bandwidth of Opterons when you get up to 4 cores and higher is much higher since the scaling is almost linear with the number of cores. For Intel, I think it was the case that a bigger cache was a cheaper design choice than a truly scalable memory subsystem. As a result, they will have different competencies. Some types of floating point codes should run very well on Intel.
ugp
Jun 22, 11:50 AM
My district here received their phones today...
Out of 68 PINs generated, only 11 phones were sent. Only to 4 stores and one of the stores that received the most phones did not even generate P any PINs. System was screwed up like I thought it would be with Radio Shack.
Out of the 11 phones 10 are 16GB and 1 32GB. The store that generated the most PINs did not receive any phones at all.
Anyone shocked... I know I am not being I worked for Radio Shack for 7 years.
Out of 68 PINs generated, only 11 phones were sent. Only to 4 stores and one of the stores that received the most phones did not even generate P any PINs. System was screwed up like I thought it would be with Radio Shack.
Out of the 11 phones 10 are 16GB and 1 32GB. The store that generated the most PINs did not receive any phones at all.
Anyone shocked... I know I am not being I worked for Radio Shack for 7 years.
Cougarcat
Mar 26, 02:23 PM
You may get your wish soon. It appears that Lion will be Step 1 in the blending of the two OS's. A bridge. Step 2 may very well be the one & only Apple OS - based on iOS.
There's too much money in the volume sales of iPhones & iPads for Apple to focus on anything else.
Ridiculous. Mac OS X and iOS can never merge because their UI paradigms are completely different. Why don't people understand this?
And on what computers would iOS apps be developed on of Apple were to can the Mac? iOS may be much more popular, but the Mac is more popular now than it ever has been and still makes then plenty of money.
There's too much money in the volume sales of iPhones & iPads for Apple to focus on anything else.
Ridiculous. Mac OS X and iOS can never merge because their UI paradigms are completely different. Why don't people understand this?
And on what computers would iOS apps be developed on of Apple were to can the Mac? iOS may be much more popular, but the Mac is more popular now than it ever has been and still makes then plenty of money.
hunkaburningluv
Mar 23, 07:07 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)
Well, you only need to look at what happened with the gameboy to see that competition is good.
After seeing off the game gear and lynx, the gameboy stagnated for almost a decade. How long did it take before there was a colour version? Years, yet we've seen some great revisions since the PSP was announced.
Internet Explorer 6. Case closed on "competition is good". Seriously, that anyone would doubt it at this point is baffling.
Totally agree, competition breeds innovation. Ninty was happy churning out marginal updates.
Well, you only need to look at what happened with the gameboy to see that competition is good.
After seeing off the game gear and lynx, the gameboy stagnated for almost a decade. How long did it take before there was a colour version? Years, yet we've seen some great revisions since the PSP was announced.
Internet Explorer 6. Case closed on "competition is good". Seriously, that anyone would doubt it at this point is baffling.
Totally agree, competition breeds innovation. Ninty was happy churning out marginal updates.
dernhelm
Aug 26, 07:10 PM
What by the years end? That we stop reading the same "PowerBook G5 next Tuesday!" non-starting done-to-death joke?? :rolleyes: :p
No kidding. That's getting really tired now. It's the new "first post" carp we used to have to deal with a while back.
No kidding. That's getting really tired now. It's the new "first post" carp we used to have to deal with a while back.
-aggie-
Jun 22, 08:08 AM
I'm tired of wading through all these posts. I didn't see it mentioned, but does anyone know if the Shack is carrying the 32GB iPhone 4?
wmmk
Jul 14, 06:07 PM
the question still remains--will the powermacs be able to use standard, off the shelf, pc video cards?
i know that you couldn't do so in the power architecture due to the bios irregularities. now that they're using efi, does this still mean we have to buy mac based cards? because that's really the question nobody seems to ask and nobody seems to have an answer for.
what this new mac workstation will mean is the chance to upgrade your macs based on commodity parts. no more mac tax for hardware. i remember when the radeon 9700 was king, the price was around $299 for pc version and $399 for mac version.
think about this, the ability to upgrade processor, video card, and sound card without having to pay the apple tax.
that's what it really comes down to. the speculative "good" version of the mac pro has a so-so video card, but it's not really worth the $600 more just to get a 1800, i'd rather just get the 1600 and upgrade on my own.
oh, btw, i did some of my own investigations and found this site:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/7_series_techspecs.html
which may mean that the standard cards are compatible with mac os x now.
i'v actually heard that with a normal PC, you can make almost any NVIDIA card compatible with mac, but it takes a bit of geekery and hackery.
i know that you couldn't do so in the power architecture due to the bios irregularities. now that they're using efi, does this still mean we have to buy mac based cards? because that's really the question nobody seems to ask and nobody seems to have an answer for.
what this new mac workstation will mean is the chance to upgrade your macs based on commodity parts. no more mac tax for hardware. i remember when the radeon 9700 was king, the price was around $299 for pc version and $399 for mac version.
think about this, the ability to upgrade processor, video card, and sound card without having to pay the apple tax.
that's what it really comes down to. the speculative "good" version of the mac pro has a so-so video card, but it's not really worth the $600 more just to get a 1800, i'd rather just get the 1600 and upgrade on my own.
oh, btw, i did some of my own investigations and found this site:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/7_series_techspecs.html
which may mean that the standard cards are compatible with mac os x now.
i'v actually heard that with a normal PC, you can make almost any NVIDIA card compatible with mac, but it takes a bit of geekery and hackery.
Super Dave
Aug 8, 12:54 AM
Part of the "Top Secret" stuff has got to be a new Finder... that Finder looked so boring during the Keynote... it just stood out. This release will have a two year gap and that means we are bound to see some Finder changes!
Spring '06 - still 8 months away.
Yeah, I can't imagine they won't update the Finder and Safari (with more than they've shown). We are far from seeing the end of Leopard, and I think Steve made that very clear.
David :cool:
Spring '06 - still 8 months away.
Yeah, I can't imagine they won't update the Finder and Safari (with more than they've shown). We are far from seeing the end of Leopard, and I think Steve made that very clear.
David :cool:
wiestlingjr
Jun 9, 07:23 PM
Bibbz,
I have a couple questions.. I want to preorder with radioshack. I am NOT the primary account holder, but I am an authorized user. I also know the last 4 digits of the account holders social. Will this be a problem when picking up the phone?
I also have a FAN account. Will these be a problem?
I have a couple questions.. I want to preorder with radioshack. I am NOT the primary account holder, but I am an authorized user. I also know the last 4 digits of the account holders social. Will this be a problem when picking up the phone?
I also have a FAN account. Will these be a problem?
thedarkhorse
Apr 12, 06:09 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/fcpsupermeet
There's supposed to be live updates on that twitter feed.
There's supposed to be live updates on that twitter feed.
Brandon Sharitt
Sep 13, 07:25 AM
While Clovertown and Kenstfield ar interesting as probably going to be the first consumer quad core CPUs, they are currently much like Intels initial stabs at Dual Core, which were largely two Pentium chips jammed together. What will be interesting to see is the second generation Intel quad cores and (probably) first generation AMD quad core CPUs, which should be to Kenstfield and Clovertown as the Core Duo family is to the dual core Pentium 4s, though maybe not quite the same performance jump.
citizenzen
Mar 22, 07:08 PM
Whether it turns out to be justified depends on subsequent events.
Sounds dangerously like, "the ends justify the means."
Sounds dangerously like, "the ends justify the means."
Intarweb
Apr 27, 08:04 AM
I wonder if this is why I can no longer get more than a days charge on my iPhone 4 with minimal use since it seems like it's an always on thing.
rdowns
Apr 6, 01:53 PM
Wow. All the hype and pent up anti-Apple demand and all they could muster was 100K units. Very poor. Where are the other Android tablets?
As for the RIM Playbook, that **** is DOA.
WebOS will be way to late to the game but HP has huge retail distribution.
I think Apple has won this one.
As for the RIM Playbook, that **** is DOA.
WebOS will be way to late to the game but HP has huge retail distribution.
I think Apple has won this one.
myemosoul
Jun 22, 03:27 PM
Ronbo,
I am in Southwest NJ by Philadelphia, Gloucester county.
I am in Southwest NJ by Philadelphia, Gloucester county.
ergle2
Sep 13, 01:18 PM
The OS takes advantage of the extra 4 cores already therefore its ahead of the technology curve, correct? Gee, no innovation here...please move along folks. :rolleyes:
As for using a Dell, sure they could've used that. Would Windows use the extra 4 cores? Highly doubtful. Microsoft has sketchy 64 bit support let alone dual core support; I'm not saying "impossible" but I haven't read jack squat about any version of Windows working well with quad cores. You think those fools (the same idiots who came up with Genuine Advantage) actually optimized their OS to run in an 8 core setup? Please pass along what you're smoking. :rolleyes:
The Datacenter editions of Windows Server 2003 can handle up to 64 cores.
As for using a Dell, sure they could've used that. Would Windows use the extra 4 cores? Highly doubtful. Microsoft has sketchy 64 bit support let alone dual core support; I'm not saying "impossible" but I haven't read jack squat about any version of Windows working well with quad cores. You think those fools (the same idiots who came up with Genuine Advantage) actually optimized their OS to run in an 8 core setup? Please pass along what you're smoking. :rolleyes:
The Datacenter editions of Windows Server 2003 can handle up to 64 cores.
winterspan
Apr 11, 05:27 PM
80%* of potential purchasers won't have access to LTE for at least another year from then. ...
[*made up statistic, but I bet it's not far wrong! :D ]
Verizon's 4G/LTE service will be live in ~140 metro areas by Q42011
[*made up statistic, but I bet it's not far wrong! :D ]
Verizon's 4G/LTE service will be live in ~140 metro areas by Q42011
Ramrod82
Apr 8, 01:25 AM
Ipad2 = huge demand, people keep calling, going into best buy daily to check to see if any r in. BB maybe is hoping while your there u will buy some games, blu rays, etc. Then come back when the iPad is in stock, the higher demand, the more likely people will get down and pissed and spend money on other items to take their mind off of waiting for their iPad 2. You create a demand that's already there (key apple stores and website delays) and make the delay longer, customers will keep coming in! Look at the Wii when it first was out and people lined for one! And the whole bb quota I truly believe, the higher ups want to see the daily numbers and if they see an average of let's say they sell 20 a day plus other crap, the higher ups r happy, who knows I could be completely off, but thats just my 2 cents. Either BB has always been shady!
eMagius
Aug 8, 07:31 AM
hmmm, most of the features are already in windows? what version of windows do you have?
2003.
2003.
ethana
Mar 22, 12:53 PM
Blackberry playbook = The IPad 2 killer - you heard it here first.
Look at the specs, their greater or equal to the iPad 2 with the exception of battery life.
Uhhh... screen size?
Look at the specs, their greater or equal to the iPad 2 with the exception of battery life.
Uhhh... screen size?
aegisdesign
Sep 13, 11:55 AM
Lets not forget things like Spotlight that can now run more rigorously without affecting CPU resource much. You will get more intelligent software that can prepare for what you want to do so that when you go to do it it will be much more responsive. In other words just because some tasks cannot be easily broken up to leverage multiple cores doesn't mean that tasks such as those cannot be speculative run by software on idle cores in preparation for you doing the task.
Yes, that's definitely true. And I'd be happy to divert a whole core just to frickin WindowServer. :D
Yes, that's definitely true. And I'd be happy to divert a whole core just to frickin WindowServer. :D
Zadillo
Aug 7, 03:35 PM
anyone else a little underwhelmed with today's WWDC? There isn't anything that really jumped out at me besides the Mac Pro.
I don't know what there is to be underwhelmed about; the rumor has basically been that the main things being covered here would be the Mac Pro (which exceeded my expectations) and the first real glimpse at Leopard (which looks very cool from what I've seen). I didn't find either the Mac Pro or Leopard to be underwhelming, so I don't see anything that would make me feel underwhelmed.
I guess I would be underwhelmed if I had mistaken WWDC for Macworld or something, and expected a bunch of major new product announcements.
I don't know what there is to be underwhelmed about; the rumor has basically been that the main things being covered here would be the Mac Pro (which exceeded my expectations) and the first real glimpse at Leopard (which looks very cool from what I've seen). I didn't find either the Mac Pro or Leopard to be underwhelming, so I don't see anything that would make me feel underwhelmed.
I guess I would be underwhelmed if I had mistaken WWDC for Macworld or something, and expected a bunch of major new product announcements.
Matthew Yohe
Apr 7, 10:41 PM
:mad:Best Buy told me today that they had them in but Apple would not let them sell them. I have been going for two weeks every other day and they finally tell me they have them and can't sell them. I hate this crap. I want my IPad 2.
Well of course they say they have it now, because they can't sell you any. They also probably had it the various times you went in, and yet lied to you.
Well of course they say they have it now, because they can't sell you any. They also probably had it the various times you went in, and yet lied to you.
Mister Snitch
Mar 31, 02:46 PM
I knew it would happen eventually.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhqWZJWqO5DZVimBpHdnMU7ke0JHqwlQGsYg1GBUo1vmnPjRd-w_t6XlNCyXe_pt06GzVaB7aXyr9B8ssseAUB08sTzNCQz_qtD7Z6Pv8Wy4gCdjYWWXr30sqDJfuy-ju__QqFMLD-MUY0M/s1600/darth-vader-face.jpg
It was.... their DESTINY!
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhqWZJWqO5DZVimBpHdnMU7ke0JHqwlQGsYg1GBUo1vmnPjRd-w_t6XlNCyXe_pt06GzVaB7aXyr9B8ssseAUB08sTzNCQz_qtD7Z6Pv8Wy4gCdjYWWXr30sqDJfuy-ju__QqFMLD-MUY0M/s1600/darth-vader-face.jpg
It was.... their DESTINY!
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